This LETTER has been sent on behalf of all our petitioners to:

Albert Owen MP, Ieuan Wyn Jones AM, Gerry Quarrell

Newborough Forest Petitioning results

During the Summer holidays and beyond, the Newborough Forest Protection Group went out and about collecting signatures on a petition to try to save this beautiful area, showing just how strongly people object to the proposals of the Countryside Council for Wales, to remove approximately 40% of this forest, permanently.

A lot of explaining was done whilst collecting these signatures and very few people declined, the vast majority were more than willing to put pen to paper.

There are Petition forms in Newborough Post Office and Llangaffo Post Office, Anglesey, for anyone who wants to go in and sign, obviously the more signatures we can get the better.

We have collected 5000 signatures so far, with more coming in.

We have also got a further 1038 signatures on the Save Newborough Forest website.

In 2004 we collected 8500 signatures, up to the time that the Countryside Council for Wales convened a meeting in Llangefni, stating that proposals to fell 1/3rd of the forest by 2010 and 2/3rds by 2015 had been shelved permanently.  Roger Thomas, Chief Executive of the Countryside Council for Wales apologised for any underhand dealings.  The signatures from 2004 are just as relevant today as they were then, because feelings were running very high during that period, over the proposed felling, just as they are now.

Please help us with our petitions, if you have not already done so.



What People think

Just a few comments from the public, collected whilst canvasing in the forest:-

1.  Are the Countryside Council completely mad to even contemplate changing a beautiful and unique area.

2.  A couple with a young family, far from complaining about the weather said Newborough forest and beach was very like where they come from in Northern Spain and that it is beautiful.  They very willingly signed the petition to keep it all the same.

3.  That more trees were needed not less, to which I replied that our plan was for more mixed planting in the forest, and everyone I have said this to thought it a really good idea.

4.  That it was madness to spend a lot of money re-introducing the red squirrel to the area to then cut down a lot of the area that protects its habitat.  The stunted trees that lie behind the dunes act as a buffer against the strong southwesterly winds and protect the healthy trees behind.

5.  That the large and very important Raven roost should be protected, along with all the other creatures which inhabit the forest.

6.  Some of the people spoken to have been coming to the area for 30 years or more and were horrified to think of the area being changed at all.  Some are bringing their children’s children.

7.  Some people come all year round just for a day out from the Wirral and other areas, because they know that they can get protection from the weather whilst walking in the forest.

8.  A lot of the people feel that it is like being somewhere abroad, being able to walk from forest to beach, and they commented about the beauty of the area.

9.  Some people visiting yesterday had been for a walk along the beach, had returned to their car for some lunch before going for a walk in the forest.  They were delighted that they could do this without having to drive anywhere else.

10. A lot of people have commented on the fact that as there is already a large dune system on this side of the island from Newborough Warren through to Rhosneigr etc.  That the forest is equally important with its own diverse habitat, if not more so, because of the importance of trees for the overall health of the planet. Most people seem to think that if the dunes are protected then the forest is too, because of being two separate environments with different species.

The general consensus is LEAVE THE FOREST ALONE, THIS AREA IS BEAUTIFUL!



To see all Online 'CARE2' Petition results, click here

These are some comments from 'CARE2: The Petition Site'. There are lots more where these come from! - ( see Online 'CARE2' Petition results )

# 266:
Aug 5, 2009, Rod Dixon, United Kingdom
Pure vandalism, they tried to do the same at Formby in merseyside against local opinion and made a terrible mess. Some thining would be beneficial but not clear felling. The forest was originally planted to stabalise the dunes and stop them being destroyed in severe storm. With global warming and prospective sea level rise I would think this is even more valid now.

# 778
Sep 4, 2009, Gwyn Lewis, United Kingdom
I was led to believe that the whole point of devolution for Wales,of which I am a great supporter,was to bring democracy down to a more local,accountable level.Neither the European parliament sitting in Brussels or the WAG sitting in Cardiff, seem to be listening to the local objections.

# 774
Sep 3, 2009, William Parry, United Kingdom
This forest is a unique asset for Anglesey residents and toursits alike. We have plenty of examples of sand dunes running much of the way from Aberffraw to Rhosneigr. Woodland communities and all the diversity they bring are however a rare treat. Clear felling to this extent is irresponsible.

# 747
Aug 31, 2009, Nicola Hagerty, United Kingdom
the forest is a beautiful place,too many animals depend on this forest to survive. i have spent years visiting there with my friends and family and cannot think of a better place to go and enjoy the beauty anglesey has to offer. pulling it down will ruin the area and affect the popularity it has with many people and tourist which the island depends on.

# 732
Aug 30, 2009, Robert Williams, United Kingdom
You will destroy a beatiful nature reserve and will drive away tourism. If you have a genuine concern keep your chainsaws out and build a community centre for the people in the village - don't wreck the forest.

# 762
Sep 2, 2009, Gwynn Humphreys, United Kingdom
We need trees not sand!! Life not silica!!!! NO NO NO NO to Mobile sand dunes. May I just ad lib a little here - THE COUNTRYSIDE COUNCIL FOR WALES WANT TO CLEAR-FELL 600 ACRES OR 40% OF THE FOREST WITH THE INTENTION OF CREATING a desert!!!

# 756
Sep 1, 2009, Duncan Goodall, United Kingdom
Woodlands such as the Newborough Forest are the home to a wide variety of wild life, which is in complete contrast to barren sand dunes. Can red squirrels live in sand?

# 1044
Jan 14, 2010, Martin Mackenzie, United Kingdom
I support this cause 100%: the Forest and wildlife should be sacred.Surely the Countryside Council has more about them than to destroy this amazing area in favour of man-made nonsense? I visit this area regularly with my family but will not return if the Council fail to see sense!

# 81
Mar 30, 2010, Craig Bestwick, United Kingdom
I would have thought that trees would be of greater benefit to the atmosphere and the environment than mobile sand dunes.I travel from burnley with my partner and dogs at least once a month,i adore the peace and tranquill'aty,the blend of forest sand and sea. I can think only that this ludicrous idea is driven by financial gain in one way or another,thats a large amount of timber!! I am very fortunate to have the lake district to the north and will be spending my time and money in cumbria if this plan goes ahead.

# 1046
Jan 23, 2010, Paula D, Pennsylvania
I will ban visiting this area until something is done!

# 988:
Oct 26, 2009, Stuart Hindley, United Kingdom
Please do not destroy the one large open access forest area on Anglesey. It is used and loved by thousands of locals and visitors. Newborough warren and the west coast of Anglesey already has many square miles of sand dune habitat.

# 841
Sep 12, 2009, Martin Bailey, United Kingdom
It is amazing that CCW think they can disregard all the input from the extensive public consultation, and just revert back to their original plans to massively deforest the dunes, on the site of the first/only red squirrel reintroduction in the UK!! We must fight this, and make them stick to their agreement to take into account the wishes of local people.

# 811
Sep 7, 2009, Christine Vernon-Riley, United Kingdom
It would be sacrilidge to vandalise and destroy this beautiful area of my homeland, Anglesey. I have been visiting this forest for 40 years. It should be protected for the benefit of the wildlife, environment, local residents and visitors to the island. These 'remote decision makers' wouldn't vote for this wanton destruction on THEIR OWN doorstep.

# 967
Oct 16, 2009, Norma Murray, United Kingdom
It is a disgrace that the clear results of a public consultation exercise should be so blatantly ignored. Country-wide, groups are working hard to preserve our native species of squirrel, with strong popular support. The Countryside Council for Wales should be ashamed.

# 796
Sep 6, 2009, Karl Lawrence, United Kingdom
Cutting down the forest to prevent the dune area drying out is a stupid idea. The forest paths for a large part of the year are flooded and there are loads of streams running through the place. Besides, there are already plenty of dunes on the west coast of Anglesey eg aberffraw and malltraeth areas. There is only one forest and it is home to the developing red squirrel population so dont cut it down!!!!!!!

# 1029
Nov 30, 2009, Nia Jones, United Kingdom
I personally enjoy the forest to go jogging, to enjoy walking with the children. We enjoy our walks through the forest at all times of the year.The children get to see the varied wildlife and enjoy seeing new things each time. I think by chopping the tree's it will be a disaster to neborough and to the people who use the forest.

# 1028
Nov 30, 2009, Robert Haime, United Kingdom
There has bee a considerable amount of erosion of the beach, dunes and forest at Newborough over the last twenty years or so. One of the saving graces or this area is the forest - without that being there the erosion would be very much worse. This is a CRAZY idea, there is still a large area of dunes towards the Meni Straights - the forest should be left alone

# 1023
Nov 13, 2009, Andrew Hemmings, United Kingdom
I live locally to Newborough and visit it regular. The forest should not be cut down to return part of it to sand dunes. Keep the forest, it was planted originally to protect inland villages and prevent sand drift. save the forest please!

# 1021
Nov 7, 2009, Michael John Gilbert, United Kingdom
It 'beggars belief' that trees are being cut down because of some supposed European legislation on a Special Area of Conservation when the trees and area were there before any thought of joining Europe or or identification as an environmental area. I have been running, orienteering, mountain biking and introducing my children over the last 18 years in what I describe as 'Shangrila'. CCW, Welsh Assembly Government should advise Europe no the impact on the existing environment would be disastorous. There are few areas in the UK which are like Newborough, Formby in England is close and Culbin Sands in Scotland. The proposal to destroy a unique area which is allows people to relax away from the stresses of life far outways the pseudo benefits dreamed up by Europe, CCW and the Welsh Assembly Government.

# 1012
Nov 3, 2009, Richard Addison, United Kingdom
How many dune forests exist in the uk?Apart from Newborough I can only think of Culbin and Pembrey.This is 'ecology' gone mad if you carry out even part of your plans.Clocaonog Forest,so 'natural' it could also be in northern sweden,also threatened though for different reasons.What is the welsh assembly government playing at? Absolutely,definitely leave Newborough alone!

# 1010
Nov 3, 2009, Natalie Ebanks, United Kingdom
I have lived in Newborough most of my life and the thought of the 40% of the forest being felled is heart breaking. Already a large number of trees have gone and to be honest I think this is a disgrace. The CCW didn't ask the local community for their opinions on this matter and I feel like they do not actually care about what is best for the environment. They say that they will save 100's of species living in the sand dunes etc but what about the Red Squirrel conservation program? It has been a success, and felling 40% of the forest could erase all the hard work that has been done to increase the numbers of a species' which was so close to extinction. I really do not understand the CCW's logic on this matter.

# 1008
Nov 2, 2009, Mike Hesketh, United Kingdom
What a pointless and expensive exercise. Cutting down 40% of the forest will disturb a well established habitat for the red squirrels, ravens and all the other fauna and flora found in this 60 year old forest. We should be encouraging more forest on Anglesey to give greater wildlife diversity. Destroying one habitat to preserve another is wrong in this case. The wet slack areas should be allowed to evolve as climate change is almost certainly lowering the water table in the dune system and cutting down 40% of the forest could prove to be a very costly mistake.

# 997:
Nov 1, 2009, Hannah Jones, United Kingdom
Havent they got more important things to spend their money on !!!! It is unbelieveable, what is the point?! LEAVE THE FORESTRY AS IT IS , LET THE ANIMALS KEEP THEIR HOMES AND LIVES !!!!

# 969
Oct 18, 2009, Laura Goodfellow, United Kingdom
I have been walking in Newborough forest today and was lucky enough to see a red squirrel in the trees. How can this destruction be justified? Red squirrels are endangered throughout this country, surely the CCW for Wales should be doing everything they can to preserve its habitat not destroying it. Fine guardians of our countryside they are if they allow this to go ahead.

# 947:
Oct 12, 2009, Jenet Peers, United Kingdom
The forest as it stands is a far more diverse natural habitat than sand dunes will ever be. It's tax payers' money that's being spent without any regard for our wishes. What right has the CCW to dictate the rules?

# 925
Oct 5, 2009, Lawrence Moores, United Kingdom
I am concerned by the apparent lack of respect for local community wishes by CCW in this case. I recognise that as an Englishman my wishes may not be top of the agenda in Wales, but Red Squirrel conservation is a transnational problem.... These beautiful British animals need every plot of viable forested land available.

# 921
Oct 4, 2009, Barbara Sandford, United Kingdom
Anglesey has been a favourite holiday destination for my family for years and we have always enjoyed visiting Newborogh forest. If the forest were reduced by as much as planned then we would most likely choose not to visit and spend our money elsewhere!

# 920
Oct 4, 2009, Kimberley Sandford, United Kingdom
I have been a regular visitor to Newborough Forest for several years and Newborough Forest alone is a big reason why I take regular holidays to Anglesy. If the size of the forest were reduced by 40% as planned, this would severely impact my enjoyment of this beautiful place and I would be inclined to take my money elsewhere!

# 910:
Sep 28, 2009, R Taylor, United Kingdom
The trees and marram grass were planted to prevent the erosion of dunes and preserve the coastline. This has been exceptionally successful . The area is now home to wonderful orchids and other wild flowers and the nesting ravens and red squirrel introduction will all be threatened by this plan. This is one of our favourite walks. The CCW are supposed to protect not demolish.

# 903
Sep 21, 2009, Claire Louise Mcminimee, United Kingdom
The only bit of forest left on Anglesey.I go often with my horse to ride.Please leave it alone.

# 898:
Sep 21, 2009, Carol Leonard, United Kingdom
The forest has been at Newborough since 1948, over 60 years and the wildlife and flora/fauna is now well established. Many people from all walks of life get great pleasure from this area, walking dogs, taking the family for walks, horse riding, carraige driving, cycling, running and bird watching to name but a few. There are very few areas on Anglesey that are so unique and to remove and change this enviroment seems madness. Not only will a large part of the community suffer it will affect tourism as many people visit the area but also the creatures that now have been resident for these many years.

# 892
Sep 21, 2009, Jane Fedrick, United Kingdom
Firstly destruction cannot be seen to be right - life in the form of plant or mammal has got to be appreciated - don't do it. Newborough Forest is a beautiful area - perfect to help us step away from the crazy busy lives we lead.

# 887
Sep 19, 2009, Hazel Walls, United Kingdom
There are so few trees on Anglesey as it is, it would be a sad day when you have to destroy those that we do have. It is also the only safe place to go hacking on the island, and the only place I can take my daughter riding as there are no bridle paths around the island and the roads are narrow and treacherous. Please do not destroy the forest.

# 883
Sep 19, 2009, Amanda Newman, United Kingdom
Another hare brained scheme coming from unelected bureaucrats in the EU. Why should we even contemplate removing forest to save sand dunes. If the world desperately needs more forests to combat climate change this scheme is ludicrous and shocking. We have long campaigned to stop logging in the Amazon and other massive rain forests and yet a bunch of stupid bureaucrats seem to think it is okay to remove more woodland in the UK. We should be planting more woodlands to encourage the biodiversity of nature and provide habitats for some of our rare species which are struggling to survive.

# 877:
Sep 18, 2009, Margaret Marsh, United Kingdom
The forest is so peaceful for walking, whatever the weather or season and there's the added thrill of possibly seeing a red squirrel. The dunes can be harsh and very painful when it's windy.

# 870
Sep 18, 2009, Anna Sen, United Kingdom
Not only will deforestation on this scale be a disaster for flora and fauna that have established themselves in the area over several decades, but the impact on recreation will be huge. There are areas within the proposed zone to be cleared that are very dear to me and many people that I know, and which we visit daily or weekly to walk our dogs or to get some much needed peace and wilderness to balance out our busy lives. I am about to have my first child and I would like to take my daughter to these places, but a lot of them will effectively disappear. This is highly distressing. As a scientist and biologist I am also not convinced that this action will actually be beneficial to the area; the disruption will e immense and some species may never recover. The clearance will also leave a lot more space vulnerable to abuse by human activities. I AM HIGHLY OPPOSEDTO THIS ACTION and I live in the village of Newborough - we as the villagers should have the final say in this decision!!!

# 866
Sep 18, 2009, Michael Davies, United Kingdom
Gwyllum a Raven at the Tower of London is reported to have come from Newborough. We must protect this habitat and protect the ravens. Remember the legend - "at least six ravens must remain at the tower or both the Tower and the Monarchy will fall". The security of the nation is at stake.

# 861
Sep 18, 2009, Carys Ellen Roberts, United Kingdom
I live on Anglesey and regularly ride in this magnificent forest. I have lived on Anglesey all my life and Newborough is one of my favourite places to be and to relax. It's not only home to the Red Squirrels, Ravens etc it also a place where you can watch them in their own habitat, and it's the only place that you can take your horse and ride in a safe environment off road. Please reconsider, and save our forest.

# 832
Sep 9, 2009, Russ & Mary Price, United Kingdom
LEAVE IT ALONE! There is too much deforestation going on in the world today without needlesly adding to it, just to get more sand and dunes. The original purpose of the trees, planted in 1947, was to keep the sand at bay from the village of  Newborough. Another good reason for leaving it alone is that for every tree felled less oxygen is generated for sustaining life. We visit the forest on a fairly regular basis and enjoy walking the numerous footpaths, who thought up this crazy idea of destroying such a marvellous heritage.

# 825
Sep 8, 2009, Nick Weston, United Kingdom
We live on the Island and regularly walk and cycle in this magnificent forest. We have lived all over the world and Newborough is one of our favourite places to be and to relax. There is no shortage of sand and dunes.....it's an island after all. It makes no sense to destroy all the hard work done to erradicate the grey squirrel and to foster good sustainable habitat for the reds just to throw it all away now. The scale of this 'destruction' will be felt all over the forest. Please all write and make your feelings known about this half-baked idea !

# 824
Sep 8, 2009, Charlotte Hill, United Kingdom
These plans will surely be devastating for the forest's wildlife. I have seen ravens, a fox and a buzzard just in the car park. I believe it would be disastrous for the red squirrels to lose such a large area of the forest, and to destroy so much of their habitat shows lack of commitment to their conservation. How can it make sense to destroy one habitat to preserve another? The forest is important to people too. It is a haven enjoyed by many, many people who would be sad to see it change so dramatically. We need more woodland like this - not less.

# 815
Sep 7, 2009, Sharon Jones, United Kingdom
Do we really need mobile sand dunes at the expense of losing 40% of forest area. This really needs re-thinking and a vote should be taken by local people especially who will have to live with the consequences of these actions.

# 806
Sep 6, 2009, Peter Louis Gasson, United Kingdom
I was born and brought up in Anglesey - Newborough Forest is a very special place to me that I visit each time I go to Anglesey. It may be an aritificial forest but it gives the West coast of Anglesey a unique haven to flora and fauna in both windy and calm weather. Destroying the forest would be vandalism.

# 800
Sep 6, 2009, Alan Nield, United Kingdom
These undemoncratic, unelected, tax payer funded Quangos have far too much power. This act of vandalism must be prevented. Do Red Squirrels, Bee Orchids, walkers, runners, cyclists, horse riders etc. count for nothing. Its a time to boost the economic potential of Anglesey, not chop it down. If you want extensive sand hills, then just turn left at the car parks.

# 797
Sep 6, 2009, Paul Gasson, United Kingdom
In one of the least forested areas of Europe, any decision to fell parts of Newborough would be madness. It is one of only two areas of forest on Anglesey and a major recreational and educational resource. The edge of the dune area immediately adjacent to the forest is under water for much of the increasingly wet winters!

# 782
Sep 4, 2009, Rowan Hodgkinson, United Kingdom
I have lived on Anglesey since I was 11 and have always enjoyed walking in Newborough forest, Anglesey needs more trees not less so to even consider reducing the number of trees in a beautiful and established forest is inconceivable. Without trees we would not be alive, sounds crazy but its true. CCW should change their name to CDW (countryside destruction of wales). Anglesey is mostly treeless, so why create more areas of treelessness?

# 725
Aug 30, 2009, Kieran Walsh, United Kingdom
I enjoy going for walks with my nanny's dog Mot in the forest. Sand dunes are just so boring. They are just sand and do nothing. While in the forest there are all sorts of activities going on with the trees, bushes and animals. Kieran aged 10

# 723
Aug 30, 2009, Joyce Nesbitt, United Kingdom
Unbelievable. Don't destroy our forest! My family love going there. As other people have said what about the red squirrels and other wildlife. NO NO NO!!!!

# 721
Aug 29, 2009, Ifon wyn Rowlands, United Kingdom
not only the red squirrel,ravens will suffer it is an important winter habitat for woodcock which migrate here in november and as there are concerns for woodcock removing 40% of the trees is a disgrace. ccw seem to be on a different planet we are told to plant more trees to reduce co2 not cut them down....also why do the ccw restrict everyone from the dunes or beach when they let the film crews in ....money talks.....lets stand our ground and fight the buggers on the dunes,on the beach and in the forrest please...direct action required...

# 719
Aug 29, 2009, Julian Driver, United Kingdom
At least 2 pairs of Buzzards have regular nest sites within the zone designated for clear-felling and it is also an important feeding area for Crossbills which probably nest. Both species would be affected by the proposed felling. Over many years these woods have also developed a unique flora with many rare plants and fungi.

# 712
Aug 28, 2009, Robert A P Napier, United Kingdom
Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Here is a ground breaking red squirrel re-introduction project, presumably backed by all the responsible authorities, and now one of these proposes to jeopardise this project by destrroying much of the forest habitat for the said red squirrels - all in the name of the environment!!!!

# 706
Aug 28, 2009, Christine Kirwan, United Kingdom
I cannot believe that the CCW want to carry out such a wanton action, to the detriment of the woodland, birds, and particularly the rare and endangered red squirrel. I most strongly urge them to reconsider this irresponsible action.

# 697
Aug 28, 2009, Isobel Joy Davies, United Kingdom
This is a disgrace! When the government last aborted plans to ravage the beatifull haven which is Newborough forest, they promised that they would not considder such a scheme again. If they would so casually turn back on their word, what is democracy? In Ancient Egypt, swearing false oathes was punnishable by death. It was a sin then and is still now. Do we now have less of a sense of honesty and honour than those who lived 4000 years before us? How can I have any faith in the government when they cannot even keep their own promises, a virtue taught to small children?

# 695
Aug 27, 2009, Kenyon Bowler, United Kingdom
This forest management plan is complete madness and MUST be stopped at all costs.(Newborough Resident)

# 693
Aug 27, 2009, Colin David Lloyd-Hughes, United Kingdom
We pay for a season key and regularly use the forest for long walks at any time of the year. it would be a travesty if this were allowed to happen. This forest has already appeared on BBC's autumn watch showing it to have the biggest colony of ravens in the country and a sanctuary for red squirrels - it would be tragic if these were also to vanish.

# 686
Aug 27, 2009, John Sandom, United Kingdom
I have lived here for nearly 50 years and my wifes family have lived in Anglesey for a century or more. We have all used the forest for R & R. Why are we allowing the council to destroy so much of the island? Earlier this year we as family were involved with "Right to Roam" on Point Lynas another beauty spot which is now being destroyed, and the council appear to be unwilling and/or powerless to do anything about it. Leaving out any moral or ecological considerations, which are self evident from other statements, I thought a democratically elected council was there to do the bidding of the electorate

# 672
Aug 26, 2009, Gary Stubbs, United Kingdom
I've been walking the forest with my dogs for 25 years. Newborough Warren already has the largest area of mobile sand dunes in Europe. This is an outrageous plan and the CCW should hang their heads in shame.

# 662
Aug 25, 2009, Wyn Parry, United Kingdom
Another classic CCW DISTASTER in the making .

# 654
Aug 25, 2009, Lesley Bordoli, United Kingdom
Having spent many happy hours with my children at Newborough Forest & Beach I feel it will be a sin to fell so many of the trees. It will cause loss of habitat for many creatures, threaten the raven, and red squirrel population DON'T DO IT!!!!

# 651
Aug 25, 2009, Valerie Rowlands, United Kingdom
Why on earth do they wish to destroy this area of outstanding natural beauty. How can the destroying of this forest be helpful. I was under the impression that we, all of us, need to preserve the forests of the World and also the vegetation of our individual gardens to help combat Global Warming. We also desperately need to preserve one of the very few habitats of our native Red Squirrel.

# 640
Aug 25, 2009, Carl Williams, United Kingdom
The destruction of up to 40% of Newborough forest would be devastaing for it's wildlife. Not just squirrels but Ravens, crows woodpeckers a whole host of birds and also toads, rabbits amongst others. The forest should remain the same for future generations of people to enjoy.

# 632
Aug 24, 2009, DEREK DAVIES, United Kingdom
This would be a devastating decision for me and all of my family. We hold this area very close to our hearts, for many reasons, and would be heartbroken to see any changes made to the forest area. Please think again before making any final decison and listen to what the people who love and visit the area want.

# 631
Aug 24, 2009, Martin Crowe, United Kingdom
What a stupid proposal. The forest and its proximity to the beach is a unique feature providing a fantastic tourist attraction benefitting the local economy. Why try and damage it the local population is poor enough as it is. There is plenty of sands dunes down on the warren. What are the precise reasons for their proposal.